DEAN RICHARDS RADIO SHOW

January 14, 2001

Dean Richards' Introduction:

Dean Richards' Sunday Morning continues with a look at movies. One of the new ones - in fact, it is my Dean's List Flick of the Week - a story that goes back and tells you what happened during the 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis - the thirteen days when the world stood on the brink of disaster. [sound clips from the movie]

The brand new movie, Thirteen Days is, I think an outstanding one. It's in these days of The West Wing on television, we've gotten very used to very gritty, behind-the-political-façade kind of stories. In this motion picture we get a real sense of what was going on at the White House as a young president Kennedy, his brother Bobby, and their aide Kenny O'Donnell, played by the movie's only big name star here, Kevin Costner, faced down the big red giant.

Bruce Greenwood plays John Fitzgerald Kennedy, Steven Culp RFK, and in this motion picture I think they're just Kennedy enough without becoming silly caricatures, impersonations, that have been done on the Kennedys through the years. Kevin Costner very wisely, I think, kind of fades back into this excellent ensemble as the brothers' most trusted advisor.

This motion picture is based on books, memoirs, and declassified CIA tapes, and I think really tells this very compelling story, one for which we know the ending, which I think is a big deal. We know how this is going to end. It holds you through the whole movie by artfully revealing not just the history of those three days but the personal strengths and weaknesses of the men and women who were involved in this. It's a very, very interesting motion picture.

Bruce Greenwood who plays JFK was here in Chicago a couple of weeks ago and we are happy to spend a few minutes with him and welcome him to WGN.

BG: Thanks, it's good to be here.

DR: Glad to be able to get you nice Canadian weather. Feel at home today?

BG: Yeah. Well, coming from the palm trees, it's a nice change.

DR: The movie, Thirteen Days, is a very interesting one. Many of us remember the actual thirteen days, October 1962, during the Cuban Missile Crisis, perhaps the closest that the world has ever come to meltdown between the Soviet Union and the United States and the Cuban Missile Crisis. You get to play John F. Kennedy. How daunting was that before we even get into the story and tell about this very interesting movie and very interesting story. It's got to be a little intimidating playing one the most charismatic leaders in the modern day.

BG: Yeah. At first it was kind of overwhelming and then I thought, well, it's so overwhelming, I'd better get to work doing the research and then the research completely took over and I just forgot about those expectations. And because I was just working so hard, there wasn't time to worry about it.

DR: But because he's one of the most imitated people, certainly of a time, there had to be a tendency to avoid a caricature

BG: Well, everybody I know and probably everybody in the audience knows somebody who does a John F. Kennedy. Everybody probably has an idea who and how he was. In terms of the caricatures, I was just steeped in so much information that eventually I kind of gave over to instinct and whether or not - I didn't really think about caricature or not.

DR: Well, we'll talk more about that in a second, because really, it's the subject matter which is more interesting. Your portrayal, I thought, actually was, as John F. Kennedys go, as we've seen in TV movies and different portrayals, was a little bit understated. I think getting too much more Bostonian almost would have gotten in the way of what you were dealing with, which was some pretty heavy material. Why don't you explain these thirteen very important days back in 1962.

BG: In 1962, the world still in the grip of the Cold War and the Soviet Union, unbeknownst to the United States, is surreptitiously moving high powered nuclear warheads, intercontinental ballistic missiles, into Cuban within five minutes range of Washington. And in a routine flyby of a high altitude photographic spy plane, the U.S. picks up these photographic images that indicate that these missiles are not defensive. So they go to the Soviet Union, "What's the deal with the activity that seems to be going on in Cuba? Is it just defensive as you've assured us?" And they said, "Oh, yeah." [pause; lowers voice] Well.... it wasn't. And then it turns into the cat and mouse game of trying to figure out how and when to let them know we have the real info and trying to define what their intentions are. And the military of this country believed deeply believed, and had compelling evidence to argue that their intentions were sinister and of a first strike nature. And they put all kinds of pressure on Kennedy, both the Kennedys, to strike back before we got wiped off the face of the earth.

DR: And the conflict was one that perhaps will be one of the greatest focal points of the Kennedy administration. That's the greatest test of the Kennedy administration and this period in the history of one of the most tense moments in the Cold War between the United States and the Soviet Union.

BG: Yeah. This was when it rose to a head and as a result, now there's a hot line between the Kremlin and the White House. And that's not to say that the threat doesn't still exist, you know. SALT II was ratified but never implemented and all those warheads are still there. But it was their finest hour.

DR: I read something interesting in one of the trade publications, I don't recall where, that talks about this motion picture. That how motion pictures frequently now, you know -- there are fights between good guys and bad guys, creatures from outer space and earthlings, and this being and that being, where earth is threatened, where the security of the world is threatened, and here is a real life story where actual meltdown almost really did happen. Thirteen really incredible days where the kinds of things that movies sometimes make up.

BG: Yeah, you know, you see something like -- and this is just by way of a euphemism, I guess -- something like Armageddon (where I don't know anything about that movie particularly), but often we see movies where "THE WORLD IS ENDANGERED" and somehow, it doesn't seem that big a deal because we're kinda used to seeing the whole world endangered. We've seen so many images of the world blowing up like a balloon.

DR: Oh, the White House blew up again.

BG: Yeah, you know, it becomes hackneyed and tedious and not very important and suddenly, you realize that.... [lowers voice] hey, this... we CAN do this. We almost did it. And it's flesh and bone and soul that's going to evaporate into the universe unless we get a hold of ourselves.

DR: There's this very important historical story which is told, but also stories of people in this film, that I think is really the strength of this movie. I was just telling you before we got started, I was kind of curious about how this film would develop because, like the movie Apollo 13 or Titanic or, you know, other movies where we know what the ending is going to be, we know how it's going to turn out. How well will it keep my attention because I know what's going to happen? Will you be able to keep my interest for 90 minutes, couple of hours, however long the movie is?

BG: Yeah, it's the journey, though.

DR: Exactly. And of that journey is the historical drama that's going on, but also it's the drama between you, John Kennedy, and your brother, Robert Kennedy, which was a very important one at that time. And you and your assistant, Kennedy's assistant....

BG: Kenny O'Donnell.

DR: Kenny O'Donnell, played by Kevin Costner, who is really the big name in this motion picture. Yet it's more of an ensemble cast, really.

BG: Yeah, and that's kind of what's remarkable about the whole movie even having been made, because it needed a star of Costner's power and persuasion to get this thing going. And he's such an American, he really is, and cares so deeply about telling these stories about when we rose to be almost the best that we could be. And he really wanted to tell the story and was willing to take a role that is really truly part of an ensemble piece.

DR: Explain who Kenny O'Donnell was. There really was a Kenny O'Donnell.

BG: Oh, yeah.

DR: And the book it was based on - the book that he wrote.

BG: He came back a war hero, went to Harvard, met Bobby Kennedy at Harvard, was a quarterback there, and Bobby Kennedy was the guy who received the passes from Kenny O'Donnell. This is a time in the world when you come back a hero and you go to Harvard - you're golden. Then they entered politics and Kenny helped and Bobby persuaded Kenny to help him (Jack) campaign early on. So he became an insider. And very tight friend of the Kennedys for 15 years before they got to the White House. And part of the conjecture in this movie suggests that their friendship was profound enough and Kenny O'Donnell admittedly has had a reputation for SPEAKING HIS [snaps fingers] MIND. And their relationship as tight enough that O'Donnell could say whatever he wanted, whenever he wanted And that makes for some pretty interesting backroom conversations in this movie that drive the story forward.

DR: Very interesting backroom conversations not only between the Kennedy brothers and Kenny O'Donnell but also between White House staff, between other world leaders at the time. It's a fascinating look at how government, at least, worked; and I would guess to some extent, still works.

BG: Yeah. Don't you think it's a reminder that today we would do well to have people of superb qualifications - intellect and instinct - in the Oval Office.

DR: Talk to me about Steven Culp, the actor who plays Robert F. Kennedy. The chemistry between you and he, it seems, needed to be perfect in this.

BG: Well, we spent a lot of time together. We auditioned. In fact, the first audition we did together, we walked out, neither of us had the job and he said to me, "So, you got the gig already?" and I go, "No, no, I thought you had the gig, man." And eventually we were cast and we spent a lot of time together throwing our accents at one another, because initially we were pretty broad and we were just trying to find a distinct place for each of us to work from where we could remain separate and still sound as though we came from the same family. And he's a guitar player and so am I so we hung around playing guitar for a while and it kind of broke the ice. And then the work was just so consuming that we spent a lot of hours together.

DR: What was it like developing the characterizations because, as you say, although they were Kennedys and they were very much alike, they were also very different. How was your characterization different than his?

BG: They were just different men. You study their individual histories and the stuff that moves them and motivates them, and watch tape. And physically they're vastly different and they had very different energies; and their body languages were distinctly separate from one another so it was really only the voices where we found we crossed paths initially and then eventually we prized ourselves apart.

DR: What were the physical requirements of you? I found that very interesting I found both characters physically very interesting but yours in particular because there was a subtle discomfort maybe because of what was going on, maybe because in my own mind I knew that John Kennedy was almost always in pain.

BG: Yeah, he WAS in pain. And I think although people know that, you watch footage of him and his back looks stiff and he has this particular walk but you don't actually see him -- you never see him bite his tongue because he's in pain. And I thought, well, perhaps he's concealing that because he knows he's out in the public eye and behind closed doors he's too busy to bother concealing it. So he lets it come out a little more and nobody says anything about it because we all know he's in pain, and so what? There's more important things to do. But I thought I'd just let that wound open up a little more.

DR: What do you think the most important statement that this film makes is?

BG: It's a film about leadership and judgment. And how without a profound sense of both of those we're on very thin ice, still.

DR: Let's talk about you a little bit. Our listeners will remember, hopefully remember you from the short-lived UPN series, Nowhere Man, from St. Elsewhere, from a variety of films, from lots of stagework. What's been most interesting for you. What's the most fun for you?

BG: Well, I had a lot of fun doing Double Jeopardy and Rules of Engagement but I'd say the most interesting stuff I've had to do has been Exotica, The Sweet Hereafter, and this. This is the best role I've ever had. You know, I mean, come on. I should open a hardware store somewhere?

DR: How would you not like being JFK? Did you get all the babes to go with the JFK role?

BG: Yeah, that was an understanding, yeah.

DR: It was? Part of the contract? Where's the Marilyn Monroe look-alike?

BG: Is that so wrong? I mean, just because it wasn't in the movie doesn't mean it had to be researched. No, that was one of the things that attracted me to the movie is, they don't spend any time making those [snap, snap] easy marks. You know, these guys were busy and they were busy doing stuff that precluded any of those dalliances.

DR: Was your, not foray into television, but with your own series, was that disappointing.

BG: [laughs] Yeah.

DR: Because it was a good show. It was a good show that because, maybe because it was UPN and UPN has perennially had bad luck.

BG: When you're the only regular guy in the show and then they cancel it, it's hard not to take it personally. You can't say, "Wow, you know, a lot of them, they must have not liked the other actors." So it was a little harsh but if it hadn't been cancelled, I wouldn't have done The Sweet Hereafter. So.... mysteriously.

DR: All things work out.

BG: Yeah.

DR: And now this. What's coming up? What will you be working on in the summer?

BG: I'm doing another Atom Egoyan movie in the summer. Between now and then, I don't know what I'm going to do. And I've got a thing on A&E called The Magnificent Ambersons, a remake of the Orson Welles classic, a miniseries coming out sometime in the winter.

DR: The official opening day for Thirteen Days is....

BG: January 12th.

DR: We'll look for that outstanding motion picture with Kevin Costner, Steven Culp, and our guest, Bruce Greenwood. Thanks so much for coming by.

BG: Thanks. A pleasure to be here.

DR: Nice guy. Nice to have met him. Jim, you like the movie?

Jim: Yessir. Worth the seven bucks.

DR: Well, now, there's a good endorsement.

Jim: Yes, it is. I watch a lot of movies. I go out to the movies quite a bit. And that is what I tell other people, "It's worth the money; it ain't worth the money." There were times when I was watching this movie and I forgot the actor's name who played Kennedy, but there were times when, like wow, that Kennedy! And see, I was only two years old when this happened, so the history aspect.... if ten percent of it is true, oh, my goodness!

DR: Yeah, from what I understand. I guess there were a couple of technical problems, where in some of the scenes, there were planes and equipment and so forth, some of that hadn't been invented yet. But historically, what happened in the movie and the conflict between the military and the politicos in that, apparently was really dead-on and we had and it's a bit of an ironic way to put it, because we really were literally about twenty minutes away from nuclear meltdown, apparently, at certain points.

Jim: And this movie is about leadership. Here were all the war generals saying, "Hit 'em. Hit 'em now. Hit 'em while it's time." And Kennedy's like, "No, look at what you're gonna do. We start, they start, they start, we start. Uh, uh. Hold back."

DR: I agree. I was impressed that Kevin Costner kinda took a back seat role in it. I thought the two guys that play the Kennedy brothers are so good in this motion picture, I think it's definitely one people are going to want to check out. I appreciate the call, Jim. Thank you.

Jim: You bet.

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	Thirteen Days